Navigating Google's cookie shift with Sophie Toth & Matteo Ferrario

[00:00:00] Matteo Ferrario: Hello and welcome to Tangoo's online event about shaping the future of programmatic display advertising. I am Matteo Ferrario, delivery coordinator at Tangoo. And today we are thrilled to have Sophie Toth, programmatic partnership manager at Rakuten Viber. Sophie, could you start by telling our audience a bit about yourself and your role at Rakuten Viber?

[00:00:39] Sophie Toth: Um, yes, of course. First of all, thank you so much for the invitation. And I'm very excited to share a couple of thoughts with you. Um, I joined Rakuten Viber, uh, seven months ago as a partnership manager, but Since then, I tapped into so many things, uh, within the company and one of my passion and one of my aim just to, to put, you know, the direct programmatic partnership in the next level, as well as find a way around data, what we can do with it.

And as you know, Apps are already cookie less. So, um, I'm, I'm very much excited about, you know, even though, uh, what Google said, uh, before, uh, how we can shape our offers and products within the company. I'm enjoying it.

[00:01:32] Matteo Ferrario: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for, for your introduction, as you already anticipated, Google recent announcement has shaken the industry and many are curious about the future landscape of programmatic display ads.

And we, at Tangoo, we are particularly excited about, uh, this change that could open up new. Avenues for, uh, innovative, innovative strategies as. A lot of us know, a few days ago, Google announced that probably they won't phase out their third party cookies. They, uh, they were not clear, but probably user will choose if keep or not their cookie in their browsers.

So, uh, we can say that, uh, um, publisher, advertisers, brands. They still have to have solution on the environment, the world that will be in the next few months or, or here. And, uh, Sophie, what new opportunities do you see emerging for our industry and especially for app publisher? Uh, in light of this change.

[00:02:55] Sophie Toth: Um, yeah, it's, it was an interesting and unexpected announcement. I think so. Couple of, uh, days ago, but how I feel actually, um, Google wants to Save a little bit more time and, and just, uh, want to put this question, um, a little bit more user focused and really and truly, um, I've been in the industry for 12 years and what I see that we are very agile, so, um, I'm sure that we will be able to adopt and handling, you know, whatever comes around data and beyond, um, set up third party cookies eventually need to disappear.

Uh, though, because, uh, the main issue is with them is privacy related and privacy is legislation. So we need to comply with it, regardless, you know, who we are. So, um, I think it's just a little bit more time for everyone, especially for web publishers, but, uh, the goal is the same. We can't stop and, uh, we need to plan and maybe, you know, just shape a little bit, uh, Uh, differently, our steps and actions around the third party cookie deprecation.

On the other hand, I also, um, think that, um, we need to embrace this. I call it like hybrid, uh, cookie less or cookie deprecation, you know, approach and model, and I see a huge, huge, uh, role. For apps to filling the gap because, uh, we are storytellers, right? And and we need good stories, trusted stories, um, stories, um, to, to actually, Tell our clients, you know, uh, what they achieved so far or what they can achieve.

And without, you know, reliable data, we won't be able to do, uh, do these stories and, um, also, I think 360 view. is very, very important. So it won't be enough if you slow, uh, solely focus on, uh, for example, just web publishers, you know, web approach, you definitely need to tap into the app world as well. And, um, for, Privacy safe reasons, I think so.

Uh, you should think about just shortening down the, the advertising value chain as well. And what is the best, uh, for that just to have, you know, direct relationships, collaborations all over, you know, uh, Every possible partners you could have and you could trust as well. So shortening down, um, the, the supply path, for example, or let's say optimise the supply path, um, optimise the demand path, uh, will be crucial.

And, uh, And, and, uh, this is, uh, why I see, uh, the, the other opportunity here around curated marketplaces or trusted marketplaces. What started to come like couple of years ago, because you can trust in the inventory and apps can tap into, you know, these marketplaces as well as web publishers. And, um, Finally, I think definitely, you know, uh, this is a new beginning of something new, something, uh, totally different.

What's the advertising industry got used to. So .

[00:06:29] Matteo Ferrario: Absolutely. I completely agree with you because these changes could open. Uh, new avenues, new, uh, innovative strategies, as you already mentioned, a lot of them and data play a crucial role in that, in my opinion, is very, very important to shape a strategy in digital advertising.

You also talk about web publishers and in app publisher and. I'm asking to you, how can advertiser effectively balance in app and website data to improve their targeting efforts?

[00:07:08] Sophie Toth: Yeah, um, good question. I think, um, everyone needs to change the mindset. And this is what I've been talking about for years. So, the, the old stuff won't work.

And, and, uh, advertiser, uh, should explore all of the, the possibilities to collect the right data using the trusted data and, um, they need to think about how they can benefit from it. So definitely I see. The, the app publishers as a complimentary to web publishers. And four days ago, I wouldn't have said this, but, um, a web publisher can feel a little bit relieved, can breathe a little bit because they won't lose totally their data richness over app publishers, but they can not stop.

Stop, they need to continue their, um, strategy, their tests around, you know, cookie less solutions and, uh, this, this things just doesn't mean that, that app publishers, uh, will stay wherever they are. I think so. They will be more competitive and, and they will have more attraction from the buyer side, uh, as well.

Um, if you think about it, apps have a unique position. They somehow already build some level of trust with their audiences already when someone just, uh, downloaded them and they have much more, um, user data points, which could be, you know, a very good use of, you know, targeting and, and, uh, interaction with the right users, targeted users.

And also they can tap, I think, so much more efficiently to the authentication space as well. So I'm definitely optimistic about this.

[00:09:05] Matteo Ferrario: Yeah, I completely agree also because trust and collaboration have become more and more important than ever when it comes to data, but also data managed both from advertiser side and publisher side.

So also data owned by brands. And how do you see the industry evolving in terms of data sharing, of course, and trust building in this way?

[00:09:38] Sophie Toth: Yes, building a trust or building multi level trust, I would say, you know, not just with our partners, but our users as well. It's always an opportunity. Nothing really changed in this space.

Thank you. But, uh, what I would say that, uh, trusted privacy compliant, actionable data sometimes can be challenging to find. Uh, and when you have this luxury that you have these trusted partnerships, you can deliver definitely better result for your advertisers or clients and from the publisher side, let's say for your users.

Because advertisers can have better, uh, ROIs and, and user can see relevant ads. And it, it leads to, you know, a better user experience as well. So, um, it's a multi, multi, yeah, let's say, uh, level trust building. And in addition to that, I also feel that, uh, the conversion time needs to be narrowed down.

Because Nowadays, people just don't have time. They always rush everywhere. And the, the advertiser just can't lose that, that power moment when, when their, their message will stuck in, in the targeted audience brain. So, um, that data is everywhere, you know, but as I said before, uh, we need to focus on the trusted compliant data.

And this can be achieved, uh, through direct relationships and partnerships. And we have to admit also that, uh, our industry without data wouldn't be able to survive. So this is one of the, the crucial point we need to, to clear out and iron out, uh, how we would like to work and, and approach this. Even Google, you know, news announcement, uh, new announcement, but in general, what we want to do, because it's rely on, you know, the user now, and this is what we need to respect more and more.

And I see that. First party, first party data reliance, um, will be much more stronger and, and much more in the focus everywhere because, uh, we can do much more useful or much more powerful re engagement with our users or retarget the users. And of course, um, this is, this is what everyone wants. And, and this is where the success lies.

So let's, uh, think out of the box and, uh, let's just, uh, make our life, uh, even better and brighter.

[00:12:26] Matteo Ferrario: Absolutely agree with you. I really like also the concept of, uh, putting the users in the middle. So, uh, we really need to, um, improve our approach to the user thinking how a user. Um, think and act, uh, online and offline of course.

And also at Tangoo, we believe in fostering strong partnership, uh, based on trust, of course, both with our clients and of course, users. Audiences of the clients and with our suppliers and partners. And we can talk about trust without addressing measurements and standards. What is your view on them?

[00:13:14] Sophie Toth: Yeah. Um, so I think that, uh, measurement will, will be based on 100%, uh, authentication, you know, in, in long term, um, and attribution modeling as well.

So even Google protected audiences, mostly based on, you know, uh, uh, uh, these, these methods. So, um, what I see, um, yeah. More trusted data points, uh, we will engage with more, uh, with AI, we will make decision using AI a little bit more as well as we will do smarter lookalike models, for example, and, um, we also, um, Explore more the mindset or moment based targeting, um, in combination, let's say some sort of, uh, content led, you know, elements as well.

And, uh, the measuring needs to be holistic and needs to rely on, you know, uh, true data points and, and the fragmentation of the data is the challenge now. Um, so yes, the greatest campaigns, you know, um, will lay on, you know, Uh, good and measurable data and, uh, authentication and apps as well within this authentication, uh, uh, place can help, you know, advertiser to achieve their goals and, uh, do a test and learn, let's say, face for a little bit.

And you mentioned about, uh, the standards, right? Regulations and standards. So, um, what I think about this, I, I'm very passionate, um, about protecting, uh, different audiences and to bring, you know, standards, uh, what everyone can comply of and everyone, uh, can accept as well. For example, a minority of the audience, right?

Um, two new digital platforms is CTV and digital out of home. I can, I can see that, uh, CTV can somehow, you know, have this age fencing in place with login systems, subscriptions, you know, parenting or parenting. I think so, uh, settings or something like that. Uh, but I can't see at the moment how. digital out of home will achieve, you know, uh, this secured age fencing.

Just, if you let me, uh, tell you the story, what, uh, I was very passionate about when I, I went to, uh, Viber's office and I even took a picture and sent it to, to my colleagues that, um, so basically I went to, to the office and I was waiting for the train, uh, on the platform. And. Two huge, uh, alcohol ads, you know, they're almost next to each other.

So once competitor exclusion, right. And second, uh, I, I was thinking about how the kids. can be protected to be exposed, uh, from these sort of advertisements offline. Because, okay, online, when we get a brief, we need to comply about H1 thing, you know, uh, different legislation as well. But what about offline and digital, for example, out of home?

Um, so definitely we need to have something which is pure standard, not only, I would say digital, but standard for all advertise all sorts of advertising and, um, And yes, let's focus on the quality and, uh, let's bring, you know, um, a trusted and, and a safe place for all of our advertisers and, and audiences.

[00:17:19] Matteo Ferrario: Yes, absolutely. Thank you also for the story about the alcohol ads that for sure is very helpful for our audience to, uh, understand also, uh, the brand safety side of, uh, uh, reaching. Uh, the right audience, of course, and excluding sometimes, uh, as you, as you knew in your example, maybe younger audience or, um, I mean, to protect the both users and the brand image.

And, uh, we were talking about also, uh, regulation. So with, uh, GDPR and older privacy, of course, regulation, first party data. And the direct partnership have become more and more critical. So how should brands navigate these new landscape, this post GDPR landscape?

[00:18:16] Sophie Toth: Ah, okay. Yeah. So first of all, I little bit want to touch up on the brand safety piece, if you allow me, because, uh, it's, it's a, it's a very important piece, uh, and I'm passionate about it.

I like to talk about brand suitability. Instead of brand safety and what, um, advertisers can do definitely tap into direct relationship with, with publishers or, uh, inventory suppliers and. also keep the open marketplace to monitoring, you know, new inventory and, uh, maybe just, you know, from old, uh, excluded inventory, just re engage with them and just block them if the quality is not there.

So,

[00:19:04] Matteo Ferrario: yeah, let's talk about this. Absolutely. Because it's very interesting also to understand the difference between. Suitability and safety.

[00:19:13] Sophie Toth: Yes. Yes. Yes. So, uh, for me, the brand suitability means when we understand the targeted inventory, and also we understand the mindset of the targeted audiences. So Sometimes we, we categorise, you know, contents, or this is not good because of brand safety reason, but it could be, we can lose a lot because it could be good if we think about brand suitability.

So, uh, four words, uh, it's very important here. The where, The what, the, the when, and the why. So where is our audience mindset when they consume the content, right? And engage with the message and why they do that. If we tackle this, uh, we can turn everything into our advantage and, and again, build a brighter future, a more, um, let's say, uh, much more better user experience as well as, you know, relevant ads and even relevant contents, to be honest, because as you see, publisher want to be relevant for their users.

So this is what we need to achieve with our advertising as well. So it's, it's definitely a very, very important piece. And I agree with you. Yeah.

[00:20:39] Matteo Ferrario: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Very interesting. Uh, questions that, uh, you use to shape and to understand, uh, uh, if, uh, the audience, the message is suitable for our audience and not only the message, but also, uh, as you said, the inventory, the publisher and all the assets related to the, to the campaign.

[00:21:06] Sophie Toth: Yes. Yes. So, um, I encourage everyone, you know, if they're not, um, that much confident, how they approach this, um, just reach out to, you know, uh, um, someone who is championing it, for example, Tangoo, and, and they can definitely, I think, um, uh, help them in their, their approach. So. Yes. And, um, you, you, I don't want to miss you know, all your questions.

I think so, uh, you, you, you asked me about the GDPR and I jumped into the brand safe. I'm so sorry for that.

[00:21:41] Matteo Ferrario: No problem. We have the time to talk about, also about GDPR and the direct partnership have become more critical, you know? Yes. So I. Asked to you, how should brands navigate these, uh, post GDPR landscape?

[00:21:58] Sophie Toth: Yeah, I think trust will be the key word and compliancy, privacy, compliancy. So, um, when I, when I talk, uh, about, you know, direct relationship, it's not necessarily direct with the partner, but direct with someone the, the advertiser trust. And, um, From the publisher point of it, I think so it's, um, it's just a nice, relaxed, honest, and open conversation with our user that why we collect, you know, the data and actually we can't collect the data without any purposes, just to sake of it.

So why we, we collect this data and what we are going to use it for, uh, because this is what missing. the simple conversation with our users because this is just another legislation for an everyday user. They won't dig deeper, you know, in GDPR. They just see, okay, yes or no, consent or not. And it needs to be, you know, a thoughtful decision from them.

As well, so, uh, post GDPR, uh, I think so was a little bit bumpy at the beginning, but, uh, if I see the long term benefit, definitely we will clear out the data itself, how we process, I mean, how we collect the data. process with whom we process the data. And I also believe that it was a very good thing that we gave the ultimate control back, uh, to the data owner, which is the individual itself.

Um, What do you think about it? Do you agree that?

[00:23:47] Matteo Ferrario: Absolutely. Yes, of course.

[00:23:49] Sophie Toth: Of

[00:23:51] Matteo Ferrario: course, I completely agree. Um, I don't know if you ever heard about the, uh, concept of zero party data. So,

[00:24:00] Sophie Toth: yes, yes, yes. So

[00:24:02] Matteo Ferrario: it's a, it's a concept about, um, the owner, the real owner, the first owner of the data is you. The user, the final user.

Yes. So there is no, first, there is no second. There is no third party, zero party data.

[00:24:18] Sophie Toth: Yes.

[00:24:19] Matteo Ferrario: And, uh, I thought about it when you were talking, uh, about, I mean the trust and also to give the, uh, the, the, the real rights to the real owner of the data.

[00:24:35] Sophie Toth: Yeah.

[00:24:36] Matteo Ferrario: So, yes, absolutely agree with you Also at. We, we really want to, um, improve and create new, uh, partnership.

I think we can say that the two main keywords of the webinar is partnership and trust. Yeah. And, uh, of course we, we are an agency. We are, uh, let's say we, Help brands and advertisers. So we are looking to create a partnership also on the other side with publishers, of course, to, as you already said, um, Enable to offer premium environments that premium doesn't only mean.

publisher or cool content, but also, as we said, brand safety environments, trust environments, and where the users is at the center. So a you we can say a user centricity strategy.

[00:25:39] Sophie Toth: Definitely. And you know what? in terms of, you know, web and, and app publisher, because I was, uh, web heavy before Viber, and now I'm pure app.

And now I see somehow that the third party cookie deprecation is a pain for web publisher only. Uh, apps are, are, are third party cookie less, right? So, so, Still, my message is also regardless what, uh, Google announced, let's just not waste, you know, the dollar millions developing, you know, cookie less solutions.

Let's just thrive and let's just be. Uh, in control of what we want to do with the data and focus on the user, as opposed to, you know, uh, rely on, you know, technologies and, and their mercy, um, I would say, and the zero party data. I'm so happy that you mentioned because not so many, you know, digital, uh, professional men mentioning about this and how I see this, this also shows.

the trust from your audience to you because they willingly, proactively give this data to you. Here we go. We trust in you. We trust in your purposes. And please, please just respect it. Take good care about us and don't bombard us with Irrelevant ads. So, so it's like, you know, a 360 view. It's a true ecosystem between us and between the end user.

[00:27:22] Matteo Ferrario: Absolutely. I agree with you completely. And thank you also to, to add this, uh, Insights at the end. I think, uh, we are almost, uh, uh, run out of time. So, uh, thank you so much, Sophie, for sharing your insights with us today. Before we wrap up, could you tell our listener where they cannot wait? Where, where they can connect with you and learn more about Rakuten Viber?

[00:27:53] Sophie Toth: Yes. So everyone can, uh, find me on LinkedIn. Um, and, uh, also, um, if they go to the Rakuten Viber website and, uh, and, uh, look around, uh, there is a con contact, uh, uh, button. If they contact with the company, they will direct them. Uh, to me, if they specifically want to find me. And of course, everyone is welcome who would like to share, who would like to teach, who would like to discuss.

I'm very open for it and, and, uh, all in.

[00:28:31] Matteo Ferrario: Especially during this period and after Google announcement that, uh, we know that. A lot of people probably, uh, need, uh, let's say help or, I mean, to navigate these, uh, landscape and to understand the opportunities and, uh, I mean, challenges that, uh, we, we are going to face in the next, uh, future.

So fantastic. And for all our listening, don't forget to check out Tangoomedia.com/events for more information about these events and the upcoming events. And, uh, thank you all for tuning in and goodbye.